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| Is this top too ugly to use? http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=1450 |
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| Author: | Jeff Doty [ Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:29 pm ] |
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Hey Everyone, I picked up some inexpensive Engleman tops off of ebay to try and perfect my skills. I joined and sanded one, and was surprised at how different it looked compared to the higher grade tops I had been using. It seems to have decent stiffness accross the grain, and it is pretty close to quartered. But the color variation is sure pronounced. Do you think it is worth using? I could always make braces and bridge patches out of it, or practice making rosette channels. Jeff Top Another pic |
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| Author: | Sprockett [ Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:47 pm ] |
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Jeff.. I actually *LIKE* my tops to have some color and striping, I choose them based on that (along with other things). If it's got good tap tone I would use it, I built this one out a piece of Spruce top I found at a wood store (read not a normal place to find tops) in the bay area and it ROCKS!! 
In fact the top looks better because of the striping IMHO 
Use it, take your time doing the rosette and you'll have a great guitar. Cheers -Paul- |
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| Author: | EricKeller [ Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:26 pm ] |
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I like it too. Nobody paints sunburst acoustic guitars anymore. I always thought they were neat. |
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| Author: | Kelby [ Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:02 pm ] |
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Jeff, I don't get why pronounced color variation is a desired feature in backs and sides, but undesirable in tops. Peronsally, I love the look of striped spruce, and the stuff you bought looks great to me. I have never heard anyone suggest it adversely affects tone, either. So I suppose the only downside is that the guitar-buying public has been brainwashed into believing that color variation is a sign of inferior wood. As long as the guitar is either for you or for a customer who hasn't been brainwashed, though, I would vote to use it. Cheers, Kelby. |
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| Author: | Mattia Valente [ Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:03 pm ] |
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That's a perfectly lovely piece of spruce. If it's nice and stiff, taps well, by all means use it! My absolute favourite tops, visually, are the FA redwood ones I got from Hank Mauel, closely followed by some fairly stripey WRC. I mean, there's also a particularly simple kind of beauty to even-grained, well quartered, silky spruce, but a little bit of striping and colour variation adds plenty of character. |
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| Author: | Jason [ Wed Mar 23, 2005 7:08 pm ] |
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This comes up all the time ;) Top grading is really a two stage thing.. You've got stiffness, quarter and silking.. then you've got the entirely cosmetic end with color, consistency, grain spacing, winter rings.. I think the grading got the way it is because the factories need to be able to set certain expectations for their products.. When you sell 1 "Doty" custom built guitar its sold as what it is, an individual handcrafted instrument and piece of art that will never be exactly copied. When say Taylor sells 1000 600 series jumbos.. they want to be able to say each one is the same.. this is impossible of course but if they narrow down the grading and use machines to finish the instruments the margin for variation gets a whole lot smaller.. |
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| Author: | Colin S [ Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:43 pm ] |
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You seem to have a unanimous response to this one, I would certainly use it and it will probably end up a much nicer more interesting top than a plain white looking one. Don't overdo the rosette or it could end up looking too busy. After all your building a musical instrument, when it comes to the crunch if it sounds good that's what matters. Colin |
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| Author: | John Kinnaird [ Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:13 am ] |
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It looks incredably white to me. In fact I could not tell the difference between the top and the background. Is there any grain at all? 
(actually I don't believe either picture loaded) John |
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| Author: | Dave Rector [ Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:42 am ] |
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I like to see some grain in my tops. I say use it. If a customer come by and orders one with a pure white top you can always order one then. |
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| Author: | Dave-SKG [ Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:06 am ] |
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Jeff, maybe I missed it but how cheap is cheap? If you didn't pay too much than maybe you could consider some other use. Perhaps you could position it so that the sound hole is located where that swervy part is? or perhaps the bridge, if you use it for a smaller model. I like grain and color. I don't like swerve/curve ( in a guitar top that is)
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| Author: | Colby Horton [ Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:12 am ] |
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I would use it, if it is stiff enough. Flex it and see what you think, if it seems a little floppy, leave it a little thicker than normal and use good stiff brace wood. |
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| Author: | Mario [ Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:14 am ] |
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Nothing wrong with that top! Man, if you ever start using red spruce, you'll be discourgaed to no end <g> Once the thing is built, is bound, has a rosette and a big old soundhole in it, add some finish, maybe some toner, or give it a year to start turning gold, and that coloring all but dissapears. If that is too ugly to use, 80% of what I build would be too ugly to sell. By the way, if you candle it, you'll likely see that the darker streaks are denswer than the lighter ones. There's an advantage to that.... |
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| Author: | jfrench [ Thu Mar 24, 2005 3:30 am ] |
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While I would probably prefer a dead white top, I try not to judge soundbards aesthetically when selecting them. The main purpose of a soundboard is deeper than looking pretty, and I think the one in the pictures you gave would look just fine. I wouldn't have any reservations in using it (except for I like European spruce) Best wishes, Joshua |
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| Author: | crazymanmichael [ Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:13 am ] |
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if you don't want to use it send it to me!!! michael mcclain |
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| Author: | tl507362 [ Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:23 am ] |
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Just use it! I like stripes and colors in my tops. Since you are still learning the craft like me, it will probably be your own guitar, so what the heck. |
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| Author: | Jimmie D [ Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:55 am ] |
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I have 3 guitars nearing completion. One has a rather wide grained Red Spruce top with some color variation in it, and another has a pure white Engleman higher grade top. I actually prefer the looks of the Red to the Engleman. |
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| Author: | EricKeller [ Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:11 pm ] |
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The way the color varies between the two sides suggests a lot of runout. Not that you shouldn't use it. |
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| Author: | Mario [ Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:22 pm ] |
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Yes, there is some visible runout in the sapwood, but it doesn't seem to carry far into the piece. Depending on how it looks in person(pin knots, pitch pockets, etc...), I'd consider joining the other edges; they look cleaner from the photos... |
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| Author: | Dickey [ Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:18 pm ] |
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Cut a four inch hole. Throw three sets of rings on it. Slap on a bridge. Peel and stick a pickguard. Add the fingerboard. Install Binding and Purfling. What you have left is a pretty good looking top. Not perfect, but then we don't require our clients be perfect either, now do we? Oughta make a great guitar. I agree with Mario, red spruce can be a bear. I'm doing a dread right now and it is quite the ugly duckling top. That said, with all red spruce adirondack bracing this guitar will really sing. Use it. |
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| Author: | Brian Hawkins [ Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:50 pm ] |
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I say use it, white tops are ok, but not at the expense of punch and sustain. I like red spruce anyway and at this point almost get suspicious when I see a builder whos tops are always white.....makes me wonder if sound is his/her first objective. |
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